是谁在与民主为敌

记录片英国2007

主演:约翰·皮尔格

导演:Christopher Martin,约翰·皮尔格

播放地址

 剧照

是谁在与民主为敌 剧照 NO.1是谁在与民主为敌 剧照 NO.2
更新时间:2023-10-04 18:48

详细剧情

  这部纪录片是屡屡获奖的导演约翰·皮尔格的新作。[约翰·皮尔格成长於澳洲悉尼,目前定居英国伦敦。他是一位优秀的战地记者、作家与制片家,两度获颁英国新闻界最高荣誉“年度记者”。皮尔格足迹遍及世界各地,最受肯定的报导作品发自柬埔寨(收录于《别对我撒谎》一书)与越南。皮尔格曾荣膺“年度国际记者”与“联合国媒体和平奖”。他的纪录片得过法国“无国界记者”大奖、艾美奖,以及英国电影电视艺术学院颁发的“理查丁伯比奖”。皮尔格三十年来锲而不舍地揭露世事真相、奔走倡导人权,在2003年获颁“苏菲奖”。译者注]本片认为,美国非但没有像声称的那样要给全世界带来民主,反而正竭尽所能地想要扼杀它。  影片单独与美国政府官员进行对话,包括一些特工,他们首次在影片中披露上世纪80年代CIA是如何在拉丁美洲挑起战争的。Pilger认为,真正的大众的民主其实更有可能存在于拉丁美洲的穷乡僻壤间,那儿穷苦人民的民主运动经常被西方忽略了。

 长篇影评

 1 ) trivial,但是可以想到其他

民主是美国精神的基石,不民主类同违宪,乃会导致社会秩序的崩溃。但利益维护本质上就没有民主的因子,毋庸说国家或阶级之间,长短期利弊也无法以民主的角度考查政策优劣。所以美国的行径和其民主之教旨在根子上就有built-in的inconsistency。攻击这一点是trivial、毫无用处的,但可以指出的是它在达到手段的目的上都往往没有哪怕表面上符合其教旨,这就很让人对其文明感到失望了。暴力解决、矛盾表面化和激怒原本可以用一点甜头就平息的弱势群体、以及执行过程中缺乏对己方违宪行为的严格监管,这些做法都显得naive,二十世纪的美国还这么naive,也难怪中国了。

 2 ) 请看查尔斯总统的新闻:

 3 ) 给媚美者的扫盲片

张斌的老婆说法国外交官说,中国不能向外输出价值观之前,中国不叫崛起。的却,超级大国一定都会向外输出价值观。英国输出的是资本主义,美国输出的是民主。
 
美国对外输出的价值观是民主,但美国对外输出的力量,却是反民主。
 
《是谁在与民主为敌》这个片名翻译的感觉比英文原文还好。是谁在与民主为敌?是跟美国对着干,不断推进国有化,连《三联生活周刊》都不喜欢他的委内瑞拉总统查韦斯么?查韦斯是真正的民选总统,就算在最严格的监督之下再选多少次,委内瑞拉大多数国民仍然会选他。与查韦斯为敌,才是与民主为敌。
 
在一个两极分化极其严重的社会,如果选举公正,当选的必然是穷人拥护,而富人反感的总统。委内瑞拉是这样,智利是这样,泰国也是这样。在这种情况下,过去的一般结果是美国帮忙发动政变,把民选总统干掉,扶植傀儡政权。
 
对于经常看书了解时事的人来说,这是一个常识,比如说网上流传的一篇《智利的911和美国的报应》,说的就是这个事情。讨论美国搞别国的书很多,比较有名的包括《经济杀手自白》等等。从这个角度来说这个片没什么新意,我看完之后略感失望,简直是老生常谈。然而从普及角度讲,这个片提供了第一手的证据,包括中央情报局的档案,特工的采访等等,很醒目。
 
中情局特工说,那些国家的民主和人权对我们来说都是扯淡 - 我们关心的是national security interest!不过我看到这里感到不以为然,security 这个词应该去掉,利益就是利益嘛。
 
影片一开始采访的委内瑞拉富人倒是很有意思。影片告诉我们,富人都是全球公民,他们只想过纽约那样的生活,对美国有深刻的认同感,爱美国绝对超过爱自己的国家和人民。查韦斯并没有剥夺富人资产,但富人仍然感到极其愤怒,他们说,"I see no more future"。很多自由派文人认为爱国这个概念没什么意义,对富人来说的确没意义。但是那些居住在贫民区(不是贫民窟)的穷人呢?他们也想爱美国,可是美国不让他们去啊!
 
片尾指出,对穷国直接发动政变这个办法现在美国已经少用了,现在用的办法是经济手段。把该国的精英请到芝加哥大学(记住这个学校)学经济,然后回国搞经济,卖资源,搞比较优势。结果是两极分化的急剧加速。
 
联系到中国的情况,国内有很多人本身并不富裕,但也把自己当成世界公民,他们提前在精神上进入了精英行列。我相信对这些人来说,即使看了这个纪录片也不会认为美国有什么不好,他们一定认为这是美国的权利。他们会反驳说,但是美国对自己国家人民很好啊。我对这些人的话是,去看看《华氏9/11》,去看看《Sicko》,去看看美国人写的美国政治书。
 
我希望中国能把这个片翻译过来在国内播出。但这是不可能的。因为尽管全世界都不怕得罪美国,中国政府却最不想得罪美国。中国文人最不想让老百姓知道的就是美国有一身毛病。这个片说的事情我早就知道,可是写到这里却感到非常愤怒。我发现使我愤怒的不是美国,而是那些一天到晚仰望美国的中国文人。

 4 ) just to learn by what they said

The War On Democracy

Guatemala is going to enter a new era
In which there will be prosperity for the people,
together with liberty for the people.

The question is, why are we supporting El Salvador?
No, the question was, why are we killing priests in El Slvardo?
The answer is, we're not, now, you be quiet.
Prisident Christiani is trying to do a job for democracy
and the lelf-wing guerrillas must not take over El Salvador.

(George W Bush) America will not impose our own style of governement on the unwilling,
our goal instead is to help others to find their own voice,
attain their own freedom, and make their own way.

This film is about the struggle of people to free themelves,
from a morden form of slavery.
Richard Nixon, president of the United States,
once said of Latin America,"People don't give a shit about the place,"
He was wrong,
The grand design of the United States as a morden empire,
was drawn on the hopes of an entire continent
known contemptously as "the back yard"
The extraordinary witnesses in this film
describe a world not as American presidents like to see it,
as useful or expendable,
they describe the power of courage and humanity,
among people with next to noghing.
They reclaim noble words like democracy, freedom, liberation, justice,
and in doing so, they're definding the most basic human rights of all of us
in a war being waged against all of us.



THE WAR ON DEMOCRACY
A FILM BY JOHN PILGER


This is Caracas, capital of Venezuela
one of the richest countries in Latin America
thanks to huge deposits of oil
The rich in Venezuela live in leafy suburbs
with names like Country Club
Their spiritual homes are Miami and Washington

The majority live in what are known as barrios
on hillsides in breeze-block houses that defy gravity
In the past these people had been invisible-
excluded from their own soceity
Today they display the confidence of those
who know an extraordinary change has come to their lives

This is Hugo Chavez president of Venezuela the voice of the barrios
Chavez and his supporters have won ten elections in eight years
(cheering)
He's the symbol of an awakening of people powerdriven by great popular movenments that are unique to Latin America

The days of the old bosses and barons are over,That false, elite democracy is over in Venezuela,


It's no surprise that Chavez, with the help of an aggressive media coverage
has become a hate figure in the United States
because what he represents is another way
and a threat to Amecrican domination

(# Rock music)
……

(Speaking Spanish)
……

-Let me ask about you, personally,
I mean, travelling with you for the last couple of days,
I've seen a man who's clearly deeply committed
to what you want for the Venezuelan people,
Could you describe where that came from?
-I was born in a very poor home,a peasant home, so I experienced poverty,
I was a poor child, barefoot,
My father was a teacher at a rural school, and my mother too,
I had a beautiful grandmother, She was Indian, She filled me with love,
My grandmother taught me a lot,
and I learned from her about solidarity with other people,
about sharing the bread even when there's little to eat,
Later,I went into the army, the military academy, and I became a soldier,
And there I found out about Bolivar and started to realise what the truth was,

Simon Bolivar is venerated in Latin America
as the liberator from Spanish colonialism
Bolivar believed that freedom only came
when people united against all invaders no matter their disguise

Today the people of Latin America are again rising up
against an empire built on an extreme form of capitalism
know as the Washington Consensus
Whole countries have been privatized put up for sale
their natural wealth sold to foreign companies, for peanuts
In Venezuela they said "No more"

This is La Vega a barrio of a million people
Mariela Machadoo has lived here most of her life
She knows what it's like to be excluded in her own country

I can give you a very specific example on the maps,
All these hills and houses did not figure-they were shown as green spaces,
That was before Chavez's government,
Before Chavez, we did not feel a part of this society.

This is called a mission
It's a kind of parellel government
designed to bypass the old bureaucracy
and deliver real benefits to ordinary people
This is raw democracy- a triumph of the grass roots

Today they're discussing the dream of owning their own homes for the first time

We don't want the deeds just for their own sake,
More important the deeds themselves
is that we own the property in order to develop our cities,
and obtain the rights that have been denied us for so long,
This is the most important thing,
This is not a matter of getting the deeds and saying,"I'm sorted now, I can go,"
and stop coming to the parish assemblies,
because after the deeds, there are better things to come,
Like the development of our barrios.

Soon after Chavez was elected in 1999 Venezuelans voted on a constitutiong
and this little blue book has become a bestseller ever since


This is one of a chain of supermarkets set up in the barrios
funded by proceeds of oil
Here prices are kept low
and on the back of every rice and soap powder packet
are printed people's rights under the constitution

-Does it really mean somthing to you to see it there?
-Of course, because I didn't know we had rights like everyone else,
but this one, article 23,
tells us about national politics, and this makes us feel included.

Democracy, as I said recently, before our people,
as Lincoln said, has a simple definition- the difficulty is making it a reality,
We are making it a reality-
government of people, by the people and for the people,
A society where people are included and equal, where there is no exclusion,
there is no poverty, where human values reign.

For some of his supporters Chavez has not gone far enough
Familiar obstacles remain from the past
a stifling bureaucracy and widespread corruption
And although poverty has fallen dramatically in recent years, it's far from eradicated

-When you drive in from the airport and Caracas,
the one thing that shocks a first-visitor
are the barrios, the numbers of poor people,
Why is it, in Venezuela, which earns so many billions of dollars in oil money,
that there still is this poverty, in spite of all the changes you've made?
-The poor of Venezuela carry on being poor, yes,
I always say that we don't want to be rich, our aim is not material wealth,
It is to live with dignity, of course to come out of poverty,
and to come out of extreme poverty above all,
and to live, to live with dignity, this is the objective,
not to become millionaires, the Amecrican way of life, no that is stupid.
I'm teling you this because the issue of poverty affects us deeply,
It's most of our daliy struggle.

……
to be continued..

 5 ) 评论是谁在与民主为敌

只有政权会与民主为敌
就像对待韩国“光州事件”,大学生的民主运动,打着“民主”旗帜的美国却默许了“全斗焕军政府”的军事镇压,数千名军人开着坦克攻入市区,尽管有光州市民卧路阻挡坦克的前进,但韩军的坦克仍然肆无忌惮地碾过他们入城。而在这之前,已经发生了用武力打死多名学生和工人,导致“518起义”。

美国导演约翰·皮尔格三十年来锲而不舍地揭露:美国非但没有像声称的那样要给全世界带来民主,反而正竭尽所能地想要扼杀它。美国大众并不清楚这些,因为美国对自己很民主,一些事被揭发后民众表现出对美国政府的谴责与抗议。
国家之间的政治斗争,国家内部的政治斗争,牺牲品永远是我们百姓。如果人们痛恨一个国家,就是痛恨这个国家的一切,其实做这些的都是高层领导的意志,遗憾的是,我们往往对于到底是谁发动的,早就忘了,民众成功的背了黑锅。

2011年时,有一部关于贩卖儿童的国际组织,被美国的自由摄影者记录,并在YOUTOBE,FACEBOOK 中要求互相转载,让全世界知道这种恶性,我们老板是个美国人(台湾),一天上午大家陆陆续续到了公司,他叫我们都围在一起坐在电脑前,放了这部长达2个多小时的纪录片,虽然我们也很愤怒,但我们不会看这么久,谁这么认真的还真看完啊?毕竟是很枯燥的录影,小孩也没反应的。但老板超想我们认真看完,这谁都知道。一个上午全用在这上面,中午还叫我去打印个100张彩色的海报,贴在墙壁上。。。。有同事对其很不解,老板反而更惊讶的问我们:“难道你们不会?路上如果一个老婆婆被自行车撞了,你们不会扶吗?”有人向他解释了理由,他说,这不能成为你不去做的理由,难道你被他影响了吗?

政治领导人的决策并不能代表民意,只要有政权的一天,就永远不会有民主。

 6 ) Mr. D can not be taught by other people

after watched the film, i intended to boycott coca-cola on my own, which is a symbol of american life-style and amerticanization. it is easy to refuse or contempt a single product, however, it is not so easy to resist the whole real world and your desire inside. finally, one will become a slave of freedom and demoncracy in american propaganda, even worse, lose his passion and idealism. it's not a good practice.

Science and Demoncracy, neither of them can be taught by other people. one is objectively difficult, the other is subject to their preferences.

 7 ) 应该把这人送到朝鲜去

我承认,我亲美,这可能是我看了一半就删除了该片的一部分原因。但我更愿意相信删除它是因为我那略微比普通人多了那么一点点的传播学知识。

一般都认为电视新闻的可信度要比文字高,因为它能还原现场的视觉、听觉。而文字就如语言,可以随便瞎说,可以随便篡改。

但其实电视节目并无二致,也是一种符号的言说。只不过语言用词汇、句子构成意思,电视用则是用视觉片段加上剪辑。

正是因为电视也是可以剪辑的,事实当然也就是可以被改写的。经过剪辑,不好的可以变得没那么不好,甚至还可以直接变成好的。当然更加干脆的方法则是不报,报喜不报忧,《新闻联播》就是最好的例证。

还有一个关键概念,就是语境。这个就不多说了,简单来说就是去医院检查身体时提供的大便和平时你拉的大便虽然同为大便,但他们又并不都是同样的大便的意思。

我还记得这个片子中让我比较鄙视的东西:
1、“查韦斯上台后,全民公决了宪法。”
查韦斯真牛逼,一上台就能让人改变宪法。如果布什上台后能全民公决宪法,直接把“既然是United States of America,Latin America也要是美国的一部分”写入宪法,那委内瑞拉早就变成联邦中的一个state了。

2、一段反对查韦斯的示威者的镜头,示威者的表情被放大到整个屏幕。
没有字幕,我不知道镜头中的反查者们都说了什么。不过这反倒更让我注意到了制作方的别有用心。他们用了一个不是学影视的人都不知道的技巧:人的脸不能占满屏幕,要不然会显得突兀、丑陋。那些示威者们,也都是普通老百姓,只不过是持有不同政见,代表着不同的利益罢了,你凭什么那样丑化他们的形象?我相信制作者选取的也是一些不很理智的意见,可他们能说出那样的话,正因为他们也是普通老百姓。他们的诉求,就不民主了?

3、对政变的解释采用了查韦斯的“绑架”版。
查韦斯说他被绑架了,别人不让他说话,是其他人密谋策划了他辞职的假象以欺骗群众。依我看这个事情双方各有各的理,谁都说不清楚。当时小查可能真的以为大势已去,已经辞职了也不一定呢。真是可怜了那个女环境部长,她可能也是被蒙在鼓里的。看周围人的反应也应该知道,政要们对查韦斯的下台的消息已经没有什么疑惑了,他们只是点头,散开。拍这个片子的英国人真该死,一个劲地说是阴谋,根本没想过为那个女部长澄清。

最后小查说自己是被绑架了,从来都没有说过要辞职的说法之所以能被接收,搞惯政治斗争的中国人应该最能理解。

值得一提的是,虽然制作者口口声声说军队试图推翻查维斯,并以武力绑架了他,不过最后查韦斯的重新上位不也是所谓的总护卫队以武力威慑达到的么?狗咬狗,一嘴毛,你个英国佬在里面掺和什么。

4、英国佬质问美国某基金支持反查势力时的态度。
天啊,我从来没见过如此傲慢的记者。即便是华莱士采访塔利班的时候也只是抱着怀疑的态度。你可以不信,你可以反对,但你不可以把头昂过去斜眼不听,这是对人的起码尊重,更是记者应有的起码职业状态。同样受到了不公正对待的还有那个有钱人,别人有钱怎么着了?别人的钱现在是没有变少,但查的那些能够凌驾于法律之上的政策加大了别人的风险。只要是人都是趋利避害的吧?别人移民迈阿密怎么了,你喜欢别人从你口袋里掏钱?别人好心请你进屋,你却说别人坏话,这也太不厚道了吧?这英国佬可真“没道德”。

5、公布所谓的对反查势力的资助时,忽略对资金的介绍,忽略受资助的对象,一笔带过。到最后我都不知道那个基金是国有的还是私人的,而且那个基金只是基金,并不代表国家意愿吧?怎么能随便把帽子往美国头上扣呢?

其他被忽略了重要信息的还有很多,例如什么banana country的moderate的land reform,land reform有多moderate或者violent,根本一点没说嘛。

你们这些英国共产主义者们还真是站着说话不腰疼。先别说什么democracy之类的东西,先给我回答一个问题:民主就一定是穷人从有钱人口袋里掏钱的均富运动么!?

用在别处看到的一句话作结吧:你们这些人的脑垂体嵌入五角星了啊!?

 短评

里面有阿连德自杀前的广播讲话

4分钟前
  • 袁长庚
  • 力荐

民主即我主。呵呵后。

5分钟前
  • 怎会
  • 推荐

日光之下,并无新事。

9分钟前
  • Rinn
  • 推荐

1 作为纪录片本身来说有点怂 2 每每听到这片中阿连德总统的最后一段录音 我都有点想哭的冲动 3 记得波拉尼奥的《荒野侦探》里那个委内瑞拉的老作家对两个年轻人说了什么么? “我是一个托派分子 蒂娜赫罗她也是” 然后贝拉诺和利马又去拿了一瓶新酒

14分钟前
  • INsomnia
  • 推荐

还好是英国人拍的 否则肯定有人上来就说全是瞎编的

15分钟前
  • 青青
  • 力荐

民主不是完美的

17分钟前
  • 蜗牛
  • 推荐

自己的权利要自己去争取,不要等到强权者掠夺走后才开始悔恨。

19分钟前
  • 行走的鸡血
  • 力荐

第一次看部记录片看到声泪俱下!仿佛置身于黑暗的中世纪~~

24分钟前
  • 桃喜
  • 力荐

This piece of art shows spirit of another respectful and responsible journalist in our current time.

27分钟前
  • 辉夜姬
  • 力荐

3月28號john pilger要在墨爾本的marxist conference裏面作報告, 早已買好票. 非常期待! democracy belongs to the street, the barrios, the fields and the minds of people.

29分钟前
  • 亂室佳人
  • 力荐

深思

30分钟前
  • Lo
  • 推荐

同样一面倒的电影。既然不同意,不看得了,这显然是强盗逻辑。那么不妨这么看,既然同意,干嘛不在里面找支持的例证,既然不同意,何不在里面找反例?只是前提需要抛弃脑中固有的偏见,这很难,但并没有难到比铁杵磨成针的地步

35分钟前
  • 稔之
  • 推荐

凶手就是你,真相只有一个

39分钟前
  • tongzhou930
  • 力荐

没有太多新的东西。倒是能看到媒体与官方口径的合作是美国长期使用的策略。第一次知道委内瑞拉比中国要政治开明……

41分钟前
  • 老常
  • 还行

看得我感动啊,震撼啊!!媒体确实信不得

43分钟前
  • jan_wl
  • 力荐

看完这个片子 再回头看看中国 古巴 我们走过来真不容易

45分钟前
  • 蛮子
  • 推荐

national security my axx

48分钟前
  • sabretooth
  • 力荐

美国也并非一片圣地...

53分钟前
  • Kashing
  • 推荐

“民主”真是一个被用烂了的词,如果民主的“民”真的包括了贫穷的大多数的话,那么美国才是民主最大的敌人

55分钟前
  • Howe
  • 力荐

看完这部电影,就别再跟我扯什么普世价值观了

56分钟前
  • alexmaoist
  • 还行

返回首页返回顶部

Copyright © 2023 All Rights Reserved